195. Can You Be Too Nice?
发布时间 2024-05-12 00:00:00 来源
I don't even know how to respond to that. I'm Angela Duckworth. I'm Mike Marn. And you're listening to No Stupid Questions. Today on the show, can you be too agreeable? What can I do to help you solve your problem? Hello, Angela. We are on our fourth personality trait of the big five. These have gone fast. Oh my gosh. Three down. Here we go. So today, we are talking about agreeableness. Right. And we have a great question to set this up. High NSQ. It's really important to me to be kind and empathetic. I volunteer. I donate to many charities and nonprofits, and I try to give everyone I meet the benefit of the doubt. I don't regret any of these behaviors, but I've been taken advantage of many times because of them. Friends always know that I'll help out when they need help moving or want to ride home from the airport, but they are suddenly busy when it's time to reciprocate.
我甚至不知道该如何回应。 我是安吉拉·达克沃斯。 我是迈克·玛恩。 您正在收听《没有愚蠢问题》。 今天的节目讨论的问题是：友善是否会有过度？ 我能做些什么来帮助您解决您的问题？ 你好，安吉拉。 我们在讨论大五人格特质的第四个特质。这些讨论进展得很快。天啊，已经讨论了三个，我们继续。今天，我们要谈论的是宜人性。 对，我们有一个很好的问题来引出这个话题。 高贵的问题队（NSQ），对我来说，友善和富有同情心非常重要。我参加志愿工作，捐款给许多慈善机构和非营利组织，并且尝试对每个遇到的人宽容。我不后悔我的这些行为，但很多时候因为这些行为，我被人占了便宜。朋友们总知道当他们需要帮忙搬家或想要机场接送时，我都会帮助他们，但当需要他们回报时，他们却总是很忙。
I've also been scammed out of money when I thought I was helping someone in need. My therapist tells me that I'm too nice, but I don't want to be meaner. Basically, my question is, can you be too agreeable, faith? Like I assume that faith who probably took the big five inventory on our website, scored really high in big five agreeableness. And I'm going to guess that you also scored super high in this personality factor. So this was my lowest of the positive scores. No. I got a four out of five in agreeableness. Really? It was your lowest one? Can't believe that. Yes. Well, I mean, except for neuroticism. Yeah, would you want to be low? Yes. Yes. So I scored a four. What was your score? And what are the scores for our NSQ listeners? Well, I scored a 4.33, so not that different from you. And our listeners scored 3.83, so a little bit lower than you. The national average is almost exactly the average for our NSQ listeners. So we are like straight up the middle of the alley for agreeableness compared to adults in the United States.
我曾经在帮助有需要的人时被骗走了钱。我的治疗师说我太善良了，但我不想变得不那么友好。基本上，我的问题是，人是否可以太善于同意呢，Faith？我猜Faith在我们网站上做过大五人格测试，并且在"宜人性"这一项中得了很高分。我也猜你在这个人格因素上得分很高。而这是我在积极分数中最低的一项。不，我在宜人性上得了4分（满分5分）。真的？这是你最低的一项？真不敢相信。是的，除了神经质那个项目。是你想要得分低的项目吗？是的，是的。所以我得了4分。你的得分是多少？我们的NSQ听众的得分是多少？嗯，我得了4.33分，所以和你差不多。我们的听众得了3.83分，比你稍微低一点。全国平均分几乎与我们的NSQ听众的平均分一致。所以与美国成年人相比，我们在宜人性方面似乎是中等水平。
And let me remind you of the six questions that you and I took. So there were three questions that were positively scored. I am someone who is compassionate, has a soft heart. I am someone who assumes the best about people. I am someone who's respectful treats others with respect. You may recall there were three reverse scored items. So the more you say, yeah, it's like me, the lower your agreeableness score. I am someone who is sometimes rude to others. I am someone who can be cold and uncaring. I am someone who tends to find fault with others. I mean, I will say that big five agreeableness is partly about being a compassionate person. So I think we should talk about that because that's what faith is curious about. But there is a whole other part of big five agreeableness, which is really more about being compliant with other people's requests, not because you're kind-hearted or that you are sympathetic, but just that you have this tendency to kind of like fall in line with other people's demands.
让我提醒你一下我们讨论过的六个问题。其中有三个问题是正面加分的。一个是“我是一个同情他人、心软的人”，一个是“我总是对别人抱有最好的期望”，还有一个是“我尊重他人，并以礼相待”。你可能记得还有三个问题是反向评分的，如果你越同意这些说法，你的宜人性分数就会越低。它们分别是：“我有时对他人无礼”、“我可能表现得冷漠无情”和“我倾向于找别人的毛病”。我想说，大五人格中的宜人性部分涉及到成为一个有同情心的人。所以我们应该讨论一下这个，因为这正是信仰好奇的地方。不过，宜人性还有另一面，更侧重于对他人要求的顺从，不是因为你很善良或富有同情心，而是因为你有一种倾向，就是会比较容易顺应他人的要求。
Interesting. I have lived all over the world, but all over the United States as well. And I found this thing by a journalist named Frank Jacobs called Geo Psychology, your personality depends on where you live, who was referencing this 2021 study published in perspectives on psychological science. And they did a survey on agreeableness in the United States and what regions are quote unquote the most agreeable or disagreeable. And I would love for you to guess. Oh my gosh, this is so fun. I'm going to guess the Northeast, including New York, is the least agreeable. And I am going to guess that the Midwest is the most agreeable, complete stereotyping here. They found that disagreeableness hangs heaviest over some Western states from Montana to New Mexico, Nevada to the Western halves of Kansas and Oklahoma. But this was my favorite line. There is an additional grumpiness epicenter in New England. Oh, there you go. Okay. So I was not wrong.
有趣。我曾在世界各地生活过，也在美国各地居住过。我发现一个叫弗兰克·雅各布斯的记者提出了一个叫做"地理心理学"的概念，他认为人的性格取决于他们居住的地方。他引用了一项发表于《心理科学观点》的2021年研究。这项研究调查了美国各地人们的随和程度，以及哪些地区的人是“最随和”或“不随和”的。我很好奇让你来猜一猜。天哪，这太有趣了，我猜美国东北部，包括纽约，是最不随和的地区，而中西部地区则是最随和的，我承认这有点刻板印象。他们的研究发现，不随和的特征在一些西部州最为显著，从蒙大拿州到新墨西哥州，从内华达州到堪萨斯州和俄克拉荷马州的西半部。但我最喜欢的一句话是，新英格兰还有一个不随和的“重灾区”。哦，你看，我猜得没错吧。
But the most agreeableness is pronounced in the South as one might imagine. Oh, forgot about the South. But they did to your point find an important cluster in Minnesota and the Dakotas where people are very agreeable. I am no expert on geographic psychology. And I don't want to say that this is scientific fact. But let me speculate that when I talk about these two faces of agreeableness, there's the compassion element and then there's compliance. Sometimes compliance is also called politeness.
但正如人们所想象的，南方最具有随和性。哦，差点忘了南方。不过，他们确实在明尼苏达和达科他州发现了一个重要的群体，那里的人员非常随和。我对地理心理学不是专家，也不敢断言这是科学事实。不过让我来推测一下，当我谈到随和性的两个方面时，一个是同情心的因素，另一个是顺从。有时顺从也被称为礼貌。
I have not lived in the South. But I wonder whether it's more a polite culture than a truly compassionate culture. And I say this in part because there were two years in my life where I lived with a couple of roommates who were from the South. I mean, they had that wonderful, like, soft accent. Southern charm. Yeah, they were just like, I guess for somebody who grew up in New Jersey, it was just so charming. They always were polite. I mean, always solicitous and like, no problem.
我没有在南方生活过。不过我在想，南方是不是一种更偏重礼貌的文化，而非真正富有同情心的文化。我这么说部分是因为我有两年时间和几个来自南方的室友住在一起。他们有着那种迷人的、轻柔的南方口音，南方魅力。对我这个在新泽西长大的人来说，真的很迷人。他们总是非常礼貌，对人非常关心，好像没有任何问题一样。
But then after some months, I realized that there were times where they were totally irritated with me or totally irritated with other people. And I got to see it when we would come home from some dinner party where they had been exceedingly polite and seemingly kind. But then they would come home and just thrash the person. So I do kind of wonder about the finding that people from the South are more agreeable because I mean, you know, you could be polite and compassionate. But I think politeness and compassion or compliance and compassion, I mean, they're not the same thing.
但几个月后，我意识到，有时候他们对我或其他人感到非常恼火。我注意到，当我们从某个晚宴回家，他们在晚宴上表现得极其礼貌和友善。但一回到家，他们就会猛烈地批评那个人。所以我有点怀疑关于南方人更友善的说法，因为我觉得，虽然人可以表现得礼貌和有同情心，但礼貌和同情心，或者说服从和同情心，其实是不同的。
Yeah. And I do think it's worth asking the question whether you can have too much of these tendencies. What's your instinct on this? Yeah, obviously. Oh, really? You're like, this is an easy question. For me, it is in the workplace, for example, I really look for and benefit from healthy conflict. And if people feel like they just have to be compassionate, compliant, agreeable, don't get me wrong. It can be an incredible asset when someone their default is yes, they're going to figure out a way to get things done.
是的。我认为有必要问一下这个问题：这些倾向会不会过多？你对此有什么直觉？显然是有的。哦，真的？你觉得这是个简单的问题。对我来说，这在工作中是很明显的，我非常看重并受益于健康的冲突。如果人们觉得他们必须保持同情、顺从、和善，那就有问题了。不要误会，这种倾向可以是一个非常大的优点，比如当一个人的默认反应是“好”，他们会想办法把事情做好。
But at the same time, it's really damaging when people are just willing to say yes to everything, you never get to the best answer. And if leaders haven't set up a culture where you can give feedback, where there can be this healthy conflict, where people are willing to push back and be quote unquote not agreeable in the moment, then you lose the ability to get to the right answer and you just end up with the opinion of the highest ranking person.
但是，同时，当人们总是愿意对所有事情都说“好”的时候，这其实会带来很大的伤害。因为这样你永远找不到最佳答案。如果领导者没有营造出一种允许反馈、健康冲突和让人们在需要的时候勇于提出不同意见的文化，那么你就无法找到正确的答案，最终得到的只是职位最高的那个人的观点。
So what does it look like when people don't do that? Do you think the conflict goes underground? Like people go to the bathroom together and like my two roommates, you know, just start talking trash. And then they come back in the room and like everything's fine. Or do you think it's that people just like kind of stop thinking hard about what really should get done? I think both of those probably happen, right?
那么，当人们不这样做时是什么样的？你认为矛盾会被隐藏起来吗？就像有些人会一起去洗手间，然后像我的两个室友一样，开始私下说坏话。接着他们回到房间时，好像一切都很正常。还是说你认为人们就不再认真思考到底该做些什么？我觉得这两种情况可能都会发生，对吧？
And again, I'm going to put that on both sides. Like people have to be willing to speak up and you have to create a culture where people feel safe to speak up. Right. If you think like, oh, the goal in life is just to go from a three in agreeableness to a four and from a four in agreeableness to a five, it does actually raise these questions about like, well, what if you really disagree with somebody at work? What if you feel like you're getting taken advantage of like faith does?
再次强调，我要把这些内容放在双方身上。人们必须愿意发声，同时你也要营造一种让人感到安全的氛围，让他们愿意发声。对吧。如果你认为生活的目标只是把和蔼可亲评分从三分提高到四分，再从四分提高到五分，这就确实引发了一些问题，比如说，如果你在工作中真的与某人意见相左怎么办？如果你觉得像信任那样被人占便宜怎么办？
Like you're basically being a dormat. So there does seem to be this really messy nuance to it, which is like it can't always be the right thing to say yes to agree. And maybe not even the right thing to like always be thinking about other people. So I was talking to our friend, Adam Grant, who as you know is a professor of management at Wharton.
就像你基本上是在让自己成为一个没用的人。因此，这其中似乎确实存在一种非常复杂的细微差别，就像“不总是说‘同意’才是对的”，甚至可能“也不是总是考虑他人”才是正确的。所以我在和我们的朋友 Adam Grant 讨论，他是你知道的沃顿商学院的管理学教授。
So when Adam came to my university, you know, University of Pennsylvania, which includes Wharton, I was already there. And I was asked to meet him and make him happy enough that we could recruit him. But immediately we got into an argument. Like from like minute three, we were like, that doesn't make sense. And it's because we started talking about research.
所以当亚当来到我的大学，也就是宾夕法尼亚大学，包括沃顿商学院时，我已经在那里了。我被要求去见他，并让他感到满意，以便我们能够招募他。但是我们马上就发生了争论。几乎是在第三分钟时，我们就开始说：“这不合理。”因为我们开始讨论研究问题。
And Adam was studying being a giver, you know, somebody who really asked the question, what can I do to help you? And I think, you know, he's always been interested actually in the dynamic between men and women in the workplace. And he was very interested in how in his observation, a lot of women ask exactly that question, what can I do to help you solve your problem?
亚当一直在研究如何成为一个给予者，你懂的，就是那种真正会问“我能帮你做些什么？”的人。我想，你知道，他一直对职场中男女之间的互动很感兴趣。他观察到，很多女性确实常常会问这样的问题：“我能帮你解决什么问题？”这一点让他非常感兴趣。
And a lot of men were asking the question, what can you do to help me solve my problem? And he saw this asymmetry and he saw these female givers who were getting taken advantage of, they were getting all the scut work. You know, like, well, somebody's got to write up the minutes from this meeting. And like somebody's got to like start through, we're a document.
许多男性在问：“你能做些什么来帮助我解决问题？”他看到了这种不对称现象，也注意到了那些被利用的女性给予者。她们常常被分配做一些琐碎的工作，比如负责记录会议纪要或者整理文件。
He saw that clearly men were less likely to volunteer for those tasks to concede when men asked, again, to this argument with him, now this is years ago, since you've all t. But at the time, I was defending the position that more and more and more giving was the right and right and right thing. So I was a little bit like faith. I was like, isn't it just the right thing to be as altruistic as possible? And then Adam said, no, you know, you're going to be a doormat. And then he gave me this counter proposal. He's like, look, here's the way. To be a giver who doesn't get taken advantage of when you give, always ask yourself, what's the problem that I'm solving for this other person? And at the same time, how does this benefit me? I had like an allergic reaction. I was like, that's not the way my mother raised me. I know. I have the same allergic reaction.
他清楚地看到，男人在那些任务中不太可能主动参与，而当男人提出要求时，他们更容易让步。多年以前，有一次和他争论这个问题的时候，我在捍卫这样一个立场：给予更多是绝对正确的事情。所以我有点像一个信徒，我觉得尽可能无私是正确的。但亚当告诉我，不，这样下去你会被人利用。他给了我一个反建议：要成为一个不被占便宜的给予者，每次给予时都要问自己，我在为对方解决什么问题？同时，这对我有什么好处？我对此产生了强烈的反感，我觉得这不是我母亲教我的做人方式。我知道，我也有一样的反感。
Doesn't that just sound like Machiavellian? I want to govern my life as a good person who does things just because it's the right thing to do not because there's anything in for me. Right? I mean, intuitively, doesn't it ruin it when the gift has an ulterior motive? I think we share that instant completely. Speaking of our friend, Adam Grant, he wrote something with his wife in the New York Times where he talks a lot about this idea of self-sacrifice versus generosity. He said, those are pretty different things. Self-sacrifice is not sustainable and it isn't healthy because people who only care about others tend to kind of neglect themselves, which leads to more anxiety, more depression, et cetera.
这难道听起来不像马基雅维利的观念吗？我想要以一个好人的身份管理我的生活，只是因为做对的事情，而不是因为有什么好处。对吧？我觉得，直觉上，当礼物带有隐藏动机时，不就失去了意义吗？我想我们对这一点完全同感。谈到我们的朋友亚当·格兰特，他和他的妻子在《纽约时报》上写了一篇文章，其中他谈了很多关于自我牺牲与慷慨的区别。他说，这两者是非常不同的。自我牺牲是不可持续的，而且不健康，因为只关心他人的人往往会忽视自己，这导致更多的焦虑、抑郁等问题。
Whereas those who are generous, it's not about the self-sacrifice. It's about giving in ways that nurture more givers. They said, being less selfless actually allows you to give more because instead of letting people sap your energy, you maintain your motivation. That's something I can agree with. That is exactly what he said in that argument. Yeah, but what you're repeating here is that it was also what's in it for me. I guess the phrasing for me matters a lot because if it's like, hey, I'll do this to help you, but only if it also helps me. That feels just messed up. Yeah.
那些慷慨的人，不是为了自我牺牲，而是为了通过给予来培养更多的给予者。他们说，少一些自我牺牲反而能让你给予更多，因为这样你就不会让别人消耗你的精力，而是保持自己的动力。这一点我很赞同。他在讨论中正是这么说的。是的，但你重复的是那种"对我有什么好处"的想法。我觉得措辞很重要，因为如果说“嘿，我会帮你，但前提是这也帮到我”，这种感觉就很糟糕。对吧。
And I think actually that's eventually where his thinking evolved because, as I said, this is years and years and years ago, I think it was before he started writing books and then the book, Given Take, Adam has this typology. There are three kinds of people. One kind of person is a giver. They're primarily motivated to help other people solve their problems. One kind of person is a taker. They're primarily motivated to get ahead and to relate to other people with the question, what can you do to solve my problems? It's also the possibility that you're a matcher. And the matcher is actually the thing that we were just describing. Like, I'll do this for you if you do something for me.
我认为，实际上这反映了他思维发展的一个过程。正如我所说，这都是很多年前的事情了，我认为那还是在他开始写书之前。后来在他写的《Give and Take》一书中，亚当提出了一种分类方法。他认为人可以分为三种类型：第一种是给予者，这类人主要被帮助他人解决问题的动机驱动；第二种是索取者，他们主要追求自身利益，并与他人互动时总是想着“你能为我解决什么问题？”还有一种可能性就是你是一个平衡者。平衡者便是我们刚才描述的那种人：你帮我，我就帮你。
I'll do a favor for you on Monday because on Tuesday, I might need you to do a favor for me. And this nuance here is that it is possible to think about this as more sustainable giving, as you said. Not like, I'm a matcher. It's for tat. It's quid pro quo. But it's more like, how am I going to do this without becoming like an exhausted, burnt out cynical, detached on the brink of quitting person? And I think the sustainable part isn't always, oh, because you're going to do something for me. But something different. Like, I remember we got a voice memo from one of our NSQ listeners from now, you know, weeks back.
我会在星期一帮你一个忙，因为星期二我可能需要你帮我一个忙。这里的细微差别在于，这可以被看作是一种更可持续的给予方式，就像你所说的。而不是说我是一个以牙还牙的人，这不是一种对等交换，而是更多地考虑我该如何做到这一点，而不至于变得筋疲力尽、心灰意冷、脱离现实、濒临离职。我认为，这种可持续性不总是因为你要为我做些什么，而是有其他意义。比如，我记得几周前我们收到了一位NSQ听众发来的语音留言。
And they worked in some kind of charitable work. And they said that in there many years of working in that sector and also hiring people, that they had learned is to not hire people with a quote, save your complex. And the listener goes on to describe how when you hire somebody who's like a martyr, you know, it's like, I won't eat lunch. You could have all my money. And like every person that I come across, I have to save them too, that you just know they're going to burn out. I think that's the nuance. Maybe not that you should go through life as a matcher and you should always look for like what you can get out of things when you give.
他们从事某种慈善工作。 他们说，在多年的慈善工作和招聘过程中，他们学到的一点是不要雇佣那些有“救世主情结”的人。 听众继续描述说，当你雇佣一个像殉道者一样的人时，比如说，"我可以不吃午饭，你可以拿走我的所有钱"这样的人，并且声称每一个遇到的人都要去拯救，你就会知道他们迟早会精疲力竭。我认为这个描述很微妙，但这并不是说你应该成为一个唯利是图的人，总想着付出后能得到什么。
But just that you should find a sustainable self-propelling way because otherwise you do, I think, eventually gets the end of your rope. The other group that I find somewhat difficult. And again, on the surface, it may seem positive is people pleasers. How would you describe people pleasers? Well, if I may, I'd love to borrow because I read an article from a journalist and psychologist named Julie Fraga in The Washington Post. And I feel like she summarized it better than I can truthfully. So she said here are some signs of a chronic people pleaser over apologizing, taking responsibility for other people's feelings, agreeing even when you don't, saying yes to avoid conflict and feeling like your needs don't matter.
译文：你应该找到一种可持续的自我推动方式，否则我认为终究会到达你力所不及的境地。另一个我觉得有些难以相处的群体是讨好型人格的人。乍一看，这种行为可能显得很积极。你会如何描述讨好型人格呢？如果允许的话，我想借用《华盛顿邮报》一位名叫朱莉·弗拉加的记者兼心理学家的话，因为我觉得她的总结比我能表达的更准确。她提到了一些讨好型人格的特征，如过度道歉、为他人的情绪负责、即使不同意也表示赞同、为了避免冲突而说“是”、以及觉得自己的需求无关紧要。
To me, it's exhausting to work with someone who's a chronic people pleaser in that it's like, you should disagree with me. We should have healthy conflict. Please stop over apologizing. Let's just get it done. Have you ever heard this expression disagree but commit completely? Oh, of course. Yeah, it's one of Amazon's great principles. Yes, I've read all of Jeff Bezos' annual letters and you know that's weird for me since I don't care anything about like money or profits or revenues or, but you know, Jeff Bezos started writing these annual letters when he started Amazon. And to me, they're all about psychology and human nature.
对我来说，与总是讨好别人的人一起工作让人疲惫，因为我觉得你应该和我有不同意见。我们应该有健康的分歧。请别再过度道歉了。让我们一起完成工作。你听说过"不同意见但全心投入"这个表达吗？哦，当然。这是亚马逊的一个重要原则之一。是的，我读过杰夫·贝索斯的所有年度信件，这对我来说很奇怪，因为我对金钱或利润或收入不感兴趣，但你知道，杰夫·贝索斯在创办亚马逊时就开始写这些年度信件。对我来说，这些信件探讨的是心理学和人性。
And this expression disagree but completely really stuck with me. And basically, Jeff was describing, I think, you know, very similar situations to what you're talking about. He was like, you know, they're going to be times in anybody's life where you have a conflict and sometimes we're going to discuss it and we're going to agree. And that's great because we'll kind of come to a maybe a third possibility that neither of us thought of. But sometimes we're going to talk and like the end of the conversation is that we're going to disagree.
这段话的意思是“不同意但能够完全接受”这个表达对我产生了深刻的影响。基本上，Jeff在描述的情况和你提到的很相似。他说，在每个人的生活中都会有发生冲突的时候。有时候，我们会讨论这个冲突，最后达成一致。这是很好的情况，因为我们可能会想到一个双方都没有想到的第三种可能性。但有时候，我们谈论之后，结论就是我们仍然不同意。
And this expression like disagree but completely, I think means I'd prefer that you disagree openly. But when as a team, we've decided to go in a certain direction like an army marching, you kind of have to fall in line. So I do think that there will be times where you should disagree and go your own way. I do think there are times where you should disagree and commit completely. But the whole idea that it's okay to have conflict that's not resolved to disagree fundamentally with another person, I mean, wow, I just say it really took me a long time to learn that in life.
这段话的大意是：“这种表达看似完全不同意，但实际上我认为它意味着我更希望你能坦率地表达不同意见。但当我们作为一个团队决定朝某个方向前进时，就像军队行进一样，你得跟上队伍。所以，我确实认为有时候你应该持不同意见并坚持你自己的方式。但我也认为有时候你应该在不同意的情况下完全投入。在重大冲突无法解决、与他人根本意见不一致的情况下，能够接受，这种想法让我感慨良多，我花了很长时间才在生活中学会这一点。”
So I love the principle of disagree and commit for a lot of reasons. And it says in the principle, I expect disagreement. Like we encourage disagreement. We need everybody to speak up. I'm predicting it. I'm okaying it. Right. And I love that idea. At the end of the day, we have to pick one direction to go. We can't just, you know, vacillate in this eternal disagreement. You can't not have like half the marketing team doing one strategy. Right. If you have the working team, it's going to do the exact opposite.
我非常喜欢“不赞同但支持”这个原则，因为它有很多优点。这一原则表示，我期待并鼓励不同意见。我们需要每个人都畅所欲言。我预测会有分歧，并对此表示赞同。我非常欣赏这种理念。到最后，我们必须选择一个方向前进，不能始终停留在无休止的争论中。不能让市场团队的一部分执行一个策略，而另一部分却做完全相反的事情。
Right. The idea is, okay, we want to encourage healthy conflict here where people can speak up and speak their minds. And then once we make a decision and we're going this direction, we're all going to align behind it. And so I think it's an incredible principle. Yes. Melissa and Angela and I would love to hear your thoughts on agreeableness. Where do you follow in the spectrum and how has this part of your personality affected your life? Record a voice memo in a quiet place with your mouth close to the phone and email it to NSQ at Freakonomics.com and maybe we'll play it on a future episode of the show.
好的，这个想法是，我们希望在这里鼓励健康的冲突，让人们能够畅所欲言，表达自己的观点。一旦我们做出决定并制定方向，大家就会齐心协力地执行它。我认为这是一个非常棒的原则。是的，Melissa 和 Angela，我很想听听你们对随和性（agreeableness）的看法。你们在哪个范围内？这种性格特质如何影响了你们的生活？请在安静的地方用手机靠近嘴巴录制语音留言，并发送到NSQ@Freakonomics.com，我们可能会在节目中的某一期播放你的分享。
Also, if you want to learn more about your own personality, head to Freakonomics.com slash Big Five. You can take the Big Five inventory and you'll get an immediate personality profile. Your results will remain completely anonymous. And if you like the show and want to support it, the best thing you can do is tell a friend about it. You can also spread the word on social media or leave a review in your podcast app. Feel to come on No Stupid Questions.
如果你想更多地了解自己的性格，可以访问Freakonomics.com网站并找到“Big Five”页面。在那里，你可以完成“五大人格特质”测试，并立即获得个性分析结果。你的测试结果将完全匿名。此外，如果你喜欢这个节目并希望支持它，最好的方式是推荐给你的朋友。你也可以在社交媒体上分享，或者在你的播客应用中留下评论。欢迎参与“无愚蠢问题”节目。
Do nice guys really finish last? I don't even know how to respond to that other than like bummer. Now, back to Mike and Angela's conversation about agreeableness. You know Mike, when I was, gosh, I can't remember maybe a stone graduate school. Anyway, very long time ago, I did some research on Big Five agreeableness. That's not my specialty, but I was curious about like how does Big Five agreeableness matter in your life, especially for kids? So I did this study on university boys. It was part of something called the Pittsburgh Youth Study.
好人真的总是落在最后吗？对此我真的无从回应，只能说“那可真是太糟糕了”。现在，让我们回到迈克和安吉拉关于随和性的对话。你知道吗，迈克，很久以前，我好像是在研究生院的时候做过一些关于五大人格特质中随和性的研究。虽然这不是我的专长，但我当时很好奇这种特质对生活的影响，特别是对孩子的影响。因此，我在一项名为“匹兹堡青少年研究”的项目中对大学男生进行了研究。
So these university boys were assessed when they were young and then they were kind of followed up later in life. And one of the things that we found as other scientists have is that, you know, there are these two faces of agreeableness, two halves of agreeableness, if you will. We called it compliance and compassion. We found it's generally a good thing to be an agreeable little boy in Pittsburgh. So the little boys who were more compliant or polite, they ended up getting more education. They also grew up to more likely have jobs versus be unemployed.
这些大学男生在年轻时被评估，之后他们的人生经历被持续追踪。我们发现了一件与其他科学家类似的事情，那就是，友好性有两个方面，或者说是两个半面。我们将其称为顺从性和同情心。我们发现，在匹兹堡，友好的小男孩通常是件好事。那些更加顺从、彬彬有礼的小男孩最终接受了更多的教育，长大后也更有可能找到工作，而不是失业。
They were less likely to father a child while still a teenager. They were less likely to get involved in crime. I mean, is that doll maybe tied to the compliance side? You're more willing to follow rules. These were all about the compliance side. Yeah, and the compassion side also had its positives. And in particular, the little boys who were high in the compassion aspect of agreeableness ended up having longer committed personal relationships. But we had exclusively looked at little boys in Pittsburgh and not just any little boys.
他们在青少年时期成为父亲的可能性更小。他们卷入犯罪的几率也更低。我是说，那款玩偶可能与顺从有关？你更愿意遵守规则。这些都涉及顺从方面。是的，而且同情心方面也有积极的影响。尤其是那些在亲和性方面同情心强的小男孩，他们最终拥有更长久的稳定个人关系。不过，我们只调查了匹兹堡的小男孩，而不仅仅是任何小男孩。
These were all boys who by some metric were at risk for not so great life outcomes, which is why there was, you know, a reasonably high percentage of them who did end up in criminal situations, teen parenthood, et cetera. If you widen the lens, you can ask a question like, well, what about for most people? Is agreeableness good for most people? So later I did another study with a national sample of American adults. And we looked at all the big five and we've talked about the study a little bit. But for agreeableness, we looked at their relationships with income and with wealth, you know, how much money they had accumulated over their lives. Do you want to guess what the relationship is between your agreeableness and how much money you make and how much money you accumulate? I would guess that disagreeable people make more money. And in some sense get promoted more frequently because they're more willing to just say, this is what I want. This is what I need. Sharp elbows.
这些都是一些在某种标准下被认为有可能面临不太理想生活结果的男孩，因此，有相当高比例的人最终陷入了犯罪、青少年父母等情况。如果你把视角放宽，可以问这样一个问题：对于大多数人来说，随和是否是件好事？所以后来我做了另一个研究，使用了一份美国成年人的全国样本。我们研究了所有大五人格特质，并曾稍微谈及过这个研究。就随和性而言，我们考察了它们与收入和财富的关系，也就是看看他们在一生中积累了多少钱。你想猜猜随和性与你的收入和积累财富之间的关系是什么吗？我猜不太随和的人可能赚的钱更多，并且在某种意义上更容易晋升，因为他们更愿意直接表达自己的需求和想要的东西，可以说是有"锋利的肘部"。
I am pretty dang agreeable and I'll admit sometimes I'm in a negotiation and I'm like, okay, that's fine. Instead of push, push, push, push. So my gut would be disagreeable people actually end up making more money on average. Correct. So agreeableness and income were negatively correlated or as you put it, more disagreeable people make more money and you know, by kind of a substantial margin, they have greater lifetime wealth as well. It's complicated. Like maybe if you're a little boy in inner city Pittsburgh with lots of risk factors, being compassionate and compliant is a protective factor in terms of your long term life outcomes. But if you look at the big picture at everyone, I don't know, to me it was really sad. I was like, oh no. These guys really do finish last.
我通常比较随和，有时候在谈判中会觉得“好吧，这样也可以”，而不是不断坚持。所以我觉得不那么随和的人，平均来说赚的钱可能更多。的确，随和性和收入是负相关的。换句话说，不那么随和的人往往赚更多钱，甚至他们的毕生财富也更高。这其中有点复杂，比如说如果你是匹兹堡某内城区的小男孩，面临很多风险因素，那么富有同情心和顺从性在你的长期生活结果中可能是一种保护因素。但从整体来看，我觉得这很让人沮丧，因为——“好好先生”真的最后往往处于劣势。
Yeah, but I think there has to be a balance. You still have to be good to work with. I worked with one individual for a while who could get stuff done, but no one would ever work with them a second time. And that is not a sustainable strategy because they were so aggressive. Yeah. I think you have to meet a bar of agreeableness for then this disagreeable trait to impact that you can make more money, et cetera, et cetera. But you know, there is a cultural dimension to all this. And again, thinking about men versus women. So there was a study that was done by Tim Judge, who's a really terrific psychologist who studies the workplace, et cetera, and then also Beth Livingston, who does the same. And they had a prediction just like our study that in general, people who are more agreeable would earn less money.
是的，但我认为需要有一种平衡。你仍然需要是一个好相处的人。我曾与一个人合作过一段时间，他确实能把事情做好，但没有人会愿意第二次合作。这种策略并不可持续，因为他太咄咄逼人了。是的，我认为你必须达到一定的友好水平，这样这种不太友好的个性特质才能在你赚更多钱等方面产生积极影响。但你知道，这其中还有一个文化维度，再加上男女之间的不同。心理学家蒂姆·贾奇和贝丝·利文斯顿就做过一项研究，他们就像我们的研究一样预测，通常情况下，更和善的人赚的钱会更少。
And what they found is that this was especially true for men. Agreeable men make less money. Like nice guys finish last could be the summary of this. Oh, okay. Like I'm so sorry. I know. They concluded that there's a kind of backlash against agreeable men. It's not the conventional gender role that we expect. And so you're not only going to be penalized for being nice, but you're like doubly penalized because like that's not the way you're supposed to be in our society. I don't even know how to respond to that other than like bummer. And I feel like I'm a very agreeable person. And now I'm actually wondering, Mike, what are you like when there is conflict in the business context?
他们发现这一点对男性尤其如此。容易相处的男性赚钱更少。可以用“好人没好报”来总结这一点。哦，好的。对不起，我知道。他们的结论是社会对和善的男性有一种反感。这不是我们期望的传统性别角色。因此，和善的男性不仅会因为友好而受到惩罚，还会因为这与社会中的期望不符而受到双重惩罚。我甚至不知道该如何回应，除了觉得这有点糟糕。而且我觉得我自己就是个很友好的人。现在我真的有点疑惑，迈克，你在商业场合遇到冲突时表现如何？
In a negotiation, I will give you an example recently where I was negotiating something. And I took a much stronger stance than I normally would and got a way better outcome. It was not inherent to me to be that quote disagreeable in the moment, but it worked way better. And that's I think important to understand when to deploy different elements of this personality family. Right. You know, I feel like I still want to be my mother's daughter. You know, I grew up with this mom who just seemed to me to be like an infinite well of generosity. It didn't matter who knocked on our door. They could come to Thanksgiving dinner. She gave away everything.
在谈判中，我最近有一个例子。当时我在谈判，并采取了比平时强硬得多的立场，结果也好得多。通常我不是那种在当下显得很"强硬"的人，但这次效果非常好。我觉得理解何时运用不同的个性特质是非常重要的。即便如此，我仍然希望自己是我母亲的女儿。我成长在这样一个家庭，母亲在我眼中就像是无尽的慷慨之源。无论谁来敲我们的门，他们都可以来参加感恩节晚餐，她总是无私奉献一切。
I mean, she literally gave away my sister and net's stuffed animal collection one year. My sister had been over the course of her childhood, carefully accumulating these stuffed animals. She would keep them all in her bed. As I remember, so like after she would make up in the morning, she'd like make her bed and like put all the animals back on it. So she loved these stuffed animals. And one day she comes home and they're gone. My mom had met some stranger and they had a child. And I think this is not a very wealthy family. And she immediately could see that the child didn't have anything to play with. And she gave away my sister's stuffed animal collection, which I thought was pretty terrible until it actually happened to me.
意思是：有一年，我妈妈真的把我姐姐和我的毛绒玩具收藏全都送人了。姐姐在童年时期小心翼翼地积攒这些毛绒玩具，她总是把它们放在床上。我记得她每天早上起床后，会整理床铺并把所有玩具放回去，可见她真的很爱这些毛绒玩具。然而有一天，她回到家时，发现这些玩具都不见了。我妈妈遇到一个陌生人，他们有个小孩，我想这个家庭并不富裕。我妈妈看到那小孩没有玩具，就把我姐姐的毛绒玩具全都给了他。起初我觉得这很糟糕，直到同样的事情发生在我身上。
And then I really thought it was terrible. What I mean by that is. That's one birthday. I think I was in third or fourth grade. And all year I had asked my parents, begged them for this little handheld game called a Merlin. I don't think you're old enough to remember the Merlin. I don't know what that is. No. This is like several generations before the iPad or phones or whatever. There was this like red plastic. It kind of looked like a big phone, maybe 12 inches long. And I had these like buttons on it. And you could play like Tic Tac Toe on it. And not much else, honestly. This is like a very primitive version of a computer. It had just come out. And there was a toy store called KB Toy and Hobby. And it would be prominently displayed. And I begged him back and my parents were super frugal. And so of course they would say, no, no, no, no. But on my birthday, that's what I got. I got a Merlin.
然后我真的觉得那件事情很糟糕。我的意思是，有一年生日，我大概在三年级或四年级吧。整整一年，我一直在央求我的父母，想要一个叫做Merlin的小型掌上游戏机。我觉得你可能不记得Merlin是什么了。我也不太清楚那是什么。不，这个玩具是在iPad或手机出现的几代之前的发明。它是一个红色塑料装置，大概有12英寸长，看起来有点像个大电话，上面有很多按钮。你可以在上面玩井字棋游戏，但其实也没什么其他功能。这个玩具就像是非常原始版本的计算机。当时它刚刚上市。有一家叫KB Toy and Hobby的玩具店展示了它。那时我不住地请求我节俭的父母给我买，结果当然是再三被拒绝。但在我生日那天，我得到了一个Merlin。
I was so happy that I would literally run home from school so that I could like throw my book bag on the couch and play with my Merlin. So one day, not long after my birthday, I get home, I run into my bedroom. I'm looking everywhere for my Merlin. I think maybe my sister's taken it. Maybe my brother's stolen it. This isn't even like years later. This is the. No, no, no. It's like days after my birthday. I go and tell my mom that like either my brother and my sister must have taken my Merlin. And she's like, oh no, no, they didn't take it. I took it and I gave it away. And I was like, what? Now my sister's pain at losing her entire stuffed animal collection meant something to me. And I was like, what do you mean you gave me my Merlin?
我当时特别开心，每天放学后都会飞奔回家，把书包扔到沙发上，然后去玩我的梅林。因此，在我生日后不久的一天，我回到家，冲进卧室，找遍了各个角落都找不到我的梅林。我以为可能是我妹妹拿走了，也可能是我哥哥偷走了。但事情不是几年后发生的，才刚过我生日几天而已。我去告诉我妈妈，说我哥或者我姐一定是拿走我的梅林了。结果我妈说，哦不不，他们没有拿，我拿走了并把它送人了。我简直不能相信。现在，我终于理解我妹妹丢掉整套毛绒玩具时的心痛。我问：你是什么意思，你把我的梅林送给别人了？
And she was like, well, they didn't have a toy and you have so many. And then she turns around and like continues stir frying dinner. And I was bereft. But then I thought, well, they're going to get me a new Merlin. Which she didn't. That was it. My birthday present that year, I guess, was just having a few days to play with the Merlin. So in a way, you know, part of me, I mean, I am my mother's daughter. There's some part of me which just has this instinct, like give, give, give, give. What's wrong with the savior complex? Be as altruistic as possible. But where I have to say to Adam, honestly, I have come around to agree that you can be a doormat, you know, to faith, I would say, yeah, in a way, you can be too nice.
她说，那些人没有玩具，而你有那么多。然后她转过身去继续炒晚饭。我感到很失落，但随后我想，他们会给我一个新的梅林玩具。但他们没有。那年我的生日礼物，看来就是几天的时间可以玩那个梅林玩具。在某种程度上，我是我母亲的女儿，她的一部分本能就是给予、给予、不断给予。救世主情结有什么不对呢？尽可能无私。然而，我必须对亚当说实话，我逐渐同意，有时你可能会因为过于友善而被欺负。对信仰而言，我想说，是的，你可以太过友好了。
But the nuance here is that it's not that you're too altruistic. It's just that you're being a giver in a way that is seeping something out of your own life. And you can't do that forever. Like you can't bleed for other people forever. And I think in a way, if you can respect other people, then you can disagree with them and like have open conflict because you're not losing respect for them. You're just saying I disagree. And if you can respect yourself, right? Like I love myself enough also to not get burnt out. So in a way, I think agreeableness is great as long as there is a bedrock of respect, you know, respect for others, but importantly, like respect for yourself.
这里的微妙之处在于，并不是说你过于无私，而是说你以一种让自己的生活受到影响的方式在给予。而这种方式并不能永远持续下去，就像你不能一直为他人牺牲一样。我认为，如果你能尊重他人，就可以和他们有分歧，并且进行公开的冲突，因为这并不意味着你对他们失去了尊重，只是表达不同意而已。同时，如果你能尊重自己，就像我爱自己到不愿意让自己精疲力竭。因此，我认为只要有尊重作为基础，包容性是很好的，既要尊重他人，更重要的是要尊重自己。
I may have told you this before, but one of the most important things I have ever watched in life came through a rare YouTube rabbit hole moment for me where I was just watching a bunch of random videos. That does not seem like you, but go on. I like rabbit holes that other people go down. That's what I'm saying. Very rare, but I'm going through this YouTube rabbit hole and just watching whatever was popping up. And suddenly an interview pops up between Kristen Bell and Harry Connick Jr. Did I know that Harry Connick Jr. had a talk show? I did not. I did not have I ever seen another clip from it. I have not. No. Kristen Bell is married to the actor, Dax Shepherd, who you recently were on his podcast.
我可能之前告诉过你这个，不过我人生中看过的最重要的东西之一是通过一个罕见的YouTube“兔子洞”时刻发现的。当时我只是在看一堆随机的视频。这听起来不像是你的风格，但继续说。我喜欢听别人掉进“兔子洞”的经历。就是这么回事儿。虽然很罕见，但我在浏览YouTube的“兔子洞”时，随便看了一些视频，突然看到了一段Kristen Bell和Harry Connick Jr.的访谈。我之前知道Harry Connick Jr.有个谈话节目吗？我不知道。我看过其他的片段吗？没有。Kristen Bell的丈夫是演员Dax Shepherd，而你最近还上过他主持的播客节目。
Yeah. She's talking about early in their marriage and how they would fight so much and she would get so mad she would storm out of the room, storm out of the house, get in her car and drive away. Finally, Dax pulls her aside and says, Hey, I have too much respect for myself to let you continue to respond this way. And so they worked out a deal. Next time they got in a fight, she could leave the room, but she couldn't leave the house. And so she's like, we got in this big fight and I stopped talking. I grabbed the car keys and I went to the door and I just stood in front of the door and I was so mad. She said, but I love him so much. And I want to be part of this relationship forever that I wouldn't leave the house because she's like, I knew he said he had too much self respect to let this keep happening.
好的。她在讲述她们婚姻初期的事情，当时他们总是吵得很厉害，她会气得冲出房间，离开家里，开车走掉。后来，Dax私下对她说：“我非常尊重我自己，所以不能再让你这样反应下去了。”于是他们达成了一项协议：下次吵架时，她可以离开房间，但不能离开家。有一次，他们又吵得很凶，她不说话了，拿起车钥匙走到门口，站在那里，非常生气。她说，但我太爱他了，并且想要永远维持这段关系，所以我没有离开房子，因为我知道他说过他对自己有太多的自尊，不会让这种情况继续发生。
And then they finally made the agreement that she could stop talking but she couldn't leave the room. Yeah. And they go through this process. But I remember watching that because I had been in a situation with an individual work where I realized I had not had enough self respect because of the toxicity of this individual and how situations were and working around him. And I remember thinking in one very specific situation of my three older brothers and I was like, not one of them would sit here and let someone treat them like this. Why am I doing this? Right. And when I watched that, I was like, man, I don't have enough respect for myself in that I'm letting people do this. And so I would just say to faith, I think there's a big difference between being a giver and to use the words that we've been using today, being a doormat.
然后他们终于达成协议，她可以不再说话，但不能离开房间。是的，他们经过了这个过程。但我记得看那段的时候，因为我曾经在一个工作场合中遇到过这样一个人，我意识到自己因为这个人的毒性以及与他共事的环境，缺乏自尊。我记得在一个非常具体的情境下，我想到了我的三个哥哥，我心想，他们中没有一个人会坐在那里让别人这样对待他们。我为什么要这样做？是啊。当我看着那一幕，我意识到自己对自己的尊重不够，因为我让别人这样对待我。因此，我会对自己说，我认为在给予和被人当作“擦脚垫”之间有很大区别。
And I don't think it's about being meaner. I think it's about having more self respect. You know, there's one item on the questionnaire that we have up on our website is respectful, treats others with respect. But I think what you're saying has so much more depth to it. I think really, really, really has a respect for other people and for oneself. If you stand on that firm ground, I think you can't be too agreeable. And it allows you to keep giving in the long term, right? And so faith, if I could end, it would be to harken back to what Adam and Alice and Grant talked about the difference between self sacrifice and generosity.
我不认为这与变得更刻薄有关，而是更多关于拥有自尊。你知道，在我们网站上的问卷中有一项是尊重，尊重对待他人。但我认为你所说的有更深层次的意义。我认为真正重要的是对他人和自己有一种深深的尊重。如果你站在这样坚实的基础上，就不会过于迎合别人。这也让你能够在长期内持续付出。最后，如果可以的话，我想回到Adam和Alice以及Grant讨论的自我牺牲与慷慨之间的区别。
Then I think maybe that very famous book, The Giving Tree. Giving Tree, if you'll remember the book, is about this tree. I remember that book. I could almost quote it to you and draw the pictures. Did you read it growing up? Oh, of course. I think growing up, it was about, oh, this really generous tree that just gave and gave and gave until there was nothing left. This little boy would come and say, I'm hungry. I need an apple. And then it's, well, you to, I mean, I don't have it memorized.
然后我想到那本非常有名的书，《给予树》。如果你记得这本书的话，它是关于一棵树的。我记得这本书，可以说几乎能背出来，还能把里面的画面画出来。你小时候看过吗？哦，当然。我想小的时候，这本书讲的是一棵非常慷慨的树，它不停地给予，直到什么都没有剩下。那个小男孩会过来说，我饿了，我需要一个苹果。然后，虽然没有全部背下来，但大概是这样的故事。
And he wants a swing from the branches. And you know, when he gets older, you want to make a boat. And so he's like, can I cut you down and like make a canoe? And the tree says, yes. And he cuts down the tree and he goes on his adventures and then he grows up and he's like now an older man. And you remember the end, right? Yeah, the very end, he just says, I need a place to sit. And I think for a long time, we thought of this as this really beautiful, giving tree because it's called The Giving Tree.
他想要一个树枝做成的秋千。后来，他长大了一些，想要造一艘船。他问树："我可以砍下来你，做成独木舟吗？" 树答应了。他砍倒了树，开始他的冒险生涯。后来他长大了，成了一位老人。你记得故事的结尾吧？是的，在最后，他对树说："我需要一个可以坐的地方。" 我们很长时间都把这个故事看作是一个美丽的给予树的故事，因为它的名字就叫《爱心树》。
Right. Like, the whole idea was that there is no limit to what you should give that you should be as giving as possible. The editor of the book, a woman named Phyllis Fogelman, later said that she had qualms about her part in the publication of the book and said, oh my gosh, I think it is basically a book about a sadom, massacistic relationship. If Dak Shepherd and Kristen Bell rewrote the end of the giving tree, how do you think they would end it?
好的。整个理念是你应该尽可能地给予，没有限制。书的编辑，一个名叫菲利斯·福格曼的女人，后来表示对自己参与出版这本书感到不安，她说，天哪，我觉得这基本上是一本关于受虐狂关系的书。如果达克·谢帕德和克里斯汀·贝尔重新编写《爱心树》的结尾，你认为他们会如何结束呢？
Maybe the boy apologizing for stealing way too much from the tree because then there really is nothing left. Whereas if the tree had continued to blossom, it would have been able to continue to bless generations of people with apples and with shade and with swings and joy versus, oh, I selfishly used everything up. So now there is nothing left to give to anybody else. How about this? When the boy asked for the apple, that's fine. When the boy needs shade to read under, that's fine.
也许那个男孩为从树上偷了太多苹果而道歉，因为现在树上一点东西都不剩了。如果这棵树继续开花结果，它就能为世世代代的人提供苹果、树荫、秋千和快乐。而不是像现在这样，因我自私地用光了一切，导致没有东西留给其他人。这样吧，当男孩想要一个苹果时，可以。 当男孩需要在树荫下看书时，也可以。
When the boy wants to put two ropes hanging from a branch and, you know, a piece of wood in between so he can swing, that's fine. But maybe when the boy comes to the tree and says, can I cut you down and make a canoe out of your trunk? Maybe that's where the giving tree has to say, no, I have too much respect for myself and I have too much respect for you. I'm going to teach you a lesson that's going to be more important than a canoe. Do not cut me down.
当男孩想在树枝上挂两条绳子，并在中间放一块木板来荡秋千时，那很好。但是，当男孩来到树下，说能不能把树砍倒，用树干做独木舟时，也许这就是给予树应该说不的时候。给予树应该说：“我对自己有足够的尊重，也对你有足够的尊重。我想教给你的一个比独木舟更重要的教训：不要砍倒我。”
And now here's a fact check of today's conversation. In the first half of the show, Angela expresses her enthusiasm for Amazon's leadership principle, disagree but commit completely. The principle is actually half backbone, disagree and commit. The phrase disagree and commit has also been attributed to former Intel CEO Andrew Grove and to Sun Microsystems co-founder Scott McNeely.
现在我们来核实一下今天对话中的一些信息。在节目的上半部分，Angela表达了她对亚马逊领导原则“不同意但完全投入”的热情。实际上，这个原则是“有骨气，不同意并且投入”。这句话“不同意并且投入”也被认为来自于前英特尔CEO安迪·格罗夫和Sun Microsystems联合创始人Scott McNeely。
Later, Angela shares her short-lived experience with the Parker Brothers handheld electronic game Merlin, also known as Merlin the Electronic Wizard. Angela says that the device was pretty much only good for Tic-Tac-Toe. However, Merlin fans will recall that the original device released in 1978 offered a total of six games, including Mindbender, Similar to Mastermind and Blackjack.
后来，安吉拉分享了她对帕克兄弟公司手持电子游戏梅林（也称为电子魔法师梅林）的短暂体验。安吉拉说，这个设备几乎只能用来玩井字棋。然而，梅林的粉丝们会记得，这个1978年推出的原始设备实际上提供了总共六种游戏，包括类似于猜猜看和二十一点的Mindbender游戏。
Finally, Mike and Angela speculate about what the plot of Shell Silversteins, the giving tree, would look like if the tree were less self-sacrificing and agreeable. We should note that the playwright and screenwriter Tofer Pain has already rewritten the story as part of his Tofer Fixed It series, which provides alternate endings to beloved but problematic children's literature. In his version of the tale titled The Tree Who Said Healthy Boundaries, the boy in the tree experienced a more equitable relationship. The tree gets her certification in small business management, the boy in the tree open a pastry shop together, and the boy goes on to have children and grandchildren who also adore the tree.
最终，迈克和安吉拉猜测，如果雪儿·希尔弗斯坦的《爱心树》中的树不那么自我牺牲和随和，故事情节会是什么样子。值得一提的是，剧作家和编剧托弗·潘已经在他的“托弗修复了它”系列中重写了这个故事，该系列为备受喜爱但存在问题的儿童文学提供了替代结局。在他的版本中，名为《树立健康界限的树》，树与男孩的关系更加平等。树获得了小企业管理的认证，树和男孩一起开了一家糕点店，男孩后来还有了孩子和孙子，他们也都很喜爱这棵树。
That's it for the fact, Jack. Before we wrap today's show, let's hear some thoughts about last week's episode on Extraversion. Hi, Mike and Angela, Katrina from London here. One observation I had is that how extraverted we tend to action a social setting is heavily influenced by what we are lacking in our working or other life. For example, my job as fairly solitary, usually with eight out of nine hours working, spend alone. Whereas my flatmate spends pretty much all of his working time chatting to other people and presenting. By the end of the day, he is absolutely desperate for some alone time.
事实就是这样，Jack。在结束今天的节目之前，让我们来听听大家对上周关于外向性的节目有什么看法。嗨，Mike和Angela，我是来自伦敦的Katrina。我注意到，我们在社交场合中的外向程度很大程度上受到工作或其他生活中缺少的东西的影响。比如，我的工作比较孤独，通常在九小时的工作中有八个小时是独自度过的。而我的室友几乎所有的工作时间都在与人聊天和交流。一天结束时，他非常渴望有一些独处的时间。
Whereas I'm excited to talk to literally anyone about literally anything. An outside observer would probably see me as being the more extraverted one, but really I think we're both just leaning towards what we've been missing in the day. Hi, Angela and Mike. This is Natasha from North Carolina. Although my extraversion has served me well professionally, what many of my introverted friends don't get is that extraversion is not what I would choose in most other instances. I'm in my mid-40s, and like Mike, as I've aged, I find myself choosing what some might view as the introverted choice, for example, staying home on the weekends or finding some quiet during a conference.
虽然我乐于和任何人聊任何话题，从外人看来我可能更外向一些，但实际上我认为我们都只是倾向于去弥补一天中缺失的部分。嗨，Angela和Mike。我是来自北卡罗来纳州的Natasha。虽然我的外向性格在职业上对我帮助很大，但很多内向的朋友不明白的是，这种外向并不是我在大多数情况下的首选。现在我四十多岁了，像Mike一样，随着年龄增长，我发现自己越来越倾向于选择一些被认为是内向的事情，比如周末待在家里或者在会议中寻找片刻宁静。
Since it takes time to deflate the energy I get from simply being around others, plus, I don't need or want energy at 10pm. I want to sleep. Whereas my husband, an introvert, can fall asleep the second we pull into the driveway after a night out. I was one of those extroverts who thrived during the slowdown of the pandemic, despite the memes on Facebook that suggested only introverts were enjoying life at home all day. I'm thankful to have found some balance between what occurs in me naturally and what might be best for me.
由于和他人在一起让我充满活力，而这种能量需要时间来释放，况且，我在晚上10点并不需要或想要这些能量，我只想睡觉。而我的丈夫是个内向的人，他晚上外出回来，一进车道就立刻能睡着。我是那种在疫情期间慢节奏生活中反而充满活力的外向者，尽管Facebook上的段子都说只有内向者才会享受整天在家的生活。我很感激自己在顺其自然和寻找最适合自己的生活方式之间找到了某种平衡。
That was, respectively, Katrina Murray and Natasha Gore. Thanks to them and to everyone who shared their stories with us. And remember, we'd love to hear your thoughts on agreeableness. Send a voice memo to NSQ at Freakinomics.com and you might hear your voice on the show. Coming up next week on No Stupid Questions, are there any upsides to neuroticism? If you have some of this negative emotionality, it can lead to a great stand-up routine. That's next week on No Stupid Questions.
那分别是卡特里娜·默里和娜塔莎·戈尔。感谢她们以及所有向我们分享故事的人。请记住，我们很愿意听到您对随和性的看法。您可以将语音留言发送到 Freakonomics.com 的 NSQ 邮箱，您的声音可能会在节目中播出。下周在《没有愚蠢的问题》中，我们将探讨神经质是否有积极的一面？拥有一些这样的负面情绪可能会促成出色的单口喜剧演出。敬请期待下周的节目《没有愚蠢的问题》。
No Stupid Questions is part of the Freakinomics Radio Network, which also includes Freakinomics Radio, People I Mostly Admire, and The Economics of Everyday Things. All our shows are produced by Stitcher and RunBudRadio. The senior producer of the show is me, Rebecca Lee Douglas, and Leark Baudich is our production associate. This episode was mixed by Greg Ripon. We had research assistants from Daniel Moritz Rapson. Our theme song was composed by Luis Guerra. You can follow us on Twitter, at NSQ, underscore show, and on Facebook, at NSQ show.
《没有愚蠢的问题》是“怪诞经济学”广播网络的一部分，该网络还包括《怪诞经济学广播》、《我主要欣赏的人》和《日常事物的经济学》。我们所有的节目都是由 Stitcher 和 RunBudRadio 制作的。节目的高级制作人是我，Rebecca Lee Douglas，Leark Baudich 是我们的制作助理。本集由 Greg Ripon 混音。Daniel Moritz Rapson 提供了研究协助。我们的主题曲由 Luis Guerra 作曲。你可以在 Twitter 上关注我们，用户名是 NSQ 下划线 show，也可以在 Facebook 上找到我们，用户名是 NSQ show。
If you have a question for a future episode, please email it to NSQ at Freakinomics.com. To learn more, or to read episode transcripts, visit Freakinomics.com slash NSQ. Thanks for listening. Wait, is that the Midwest? I can't even tell you. Oh, Angela. The Freakinomics Radio Network, the hidden side of everything. Stitcher.
如果您对未来的节目有问题，请发送电子邮件至 NSQ@Freakonomics.com。要了解更多信息或阅读节目文字记录，请访问 Freakonomics.com/NSQ。感谢收听。等等，那是中西部地区吗？我都分不清。哦，Angela。Freakonomics 电台网络，揭示万物背后的隐藏面。Stitcher。